Values and via media II

There were a few more interesting ideas that I think merit consideration. 

Liberal Christianity becan moving from paganism to corporate culture [say, mammon].  One consequence of emphasizing inclusion and similarities was joining the human rights movement – the secularization of the universal tendency of the liberal protestant movement.   As Liberal protestant missionaries declined by 60%, but human rights movements took off. 

Evangelicals, however, refuse to test their beliefs against other religions, but have “holding fast to truths, but keeping certain blinders on.”  As Jesus is certainly the truth, the idea of testing is irrelevant.  Liberal Protestants had to accomodate Jews and Catholics, perhaps leading to its own demise.  Hollinger quoted Temple, “A church that is not willing to die is not much of a church.”

EJ Dionne began by reflecting on his son.  He remarked that

"We don’t want to chuck all the advances we made over the last 50 years.  Fifty years ago, we might not have our protestant children kiss the torah."  He offered one of the most important quotes of the conference:  “I did not become a liberal in spite of my being a Christian; I became a liberal because I am a Christian.”

He said that it was nun who taught me couldn’t even consider segregating her communion class by race; it was the reading of James, Isaiah. 

He told of the joke of the Democratic party mother who raised a very successful Irish Catholic son who decided to vote Republican.  He challenged her by asking "what if Jesus was a Republican?" when he took her to the polls.  She responded, "why should he change his party after all these years?”

Dionne noted that Falwell had once said that “Christians are called not to being involved in politics but soul-winners.”  It bothered conservatives that social gospel were so judgmental in conflating their views with God’s.    

I was a bit disappointed by John Danforth's talk, which basically affirmed that christians are to be reconcilers.

I personally think that sorts of conflict are equally important ways of revealing God.   There are kinds of reconciliation that suppress God's work, and forms of conflict that elevate God's work.  The problem in conflict is when we ignore the humanity, the potential, and the love in the other.   The issue is how conflict and reconciliation happen.

Danforth remarked that the via Media IS the Episcopal church.  We have attempted to include both Protestantism and Catholicism.  He offered a warning:  "Nothing is more energizing than what God says, and nothing more divisive;  once you believe that you’re on God’s side then there is no room for the kind of stuff, and there is a lot of room for bitterness."

"The gospel entrusts us with the ministry of reconciliation. We have to be humble whether we know God’s will.  Can it be encapsulated into a political program?  Whether we agree or disagree we come to the same altar and we share the same cup."

He also said, "We do have to watch against the fundamentalism of the religious left. Its possible that people on the left can be equally short as people on the right. I don’t know if I should come here, I thought, after all I’m a Republican.

"About the conservatives. They are our brothers or sisters in Christ. They have some points to make. One point they make has to do with what they believe is the lost of our moral compass. And they are right. They are concerned about the course of America. All you need to do is turn on the tv or watch the movies. We have become coarsened. They worry that we’ve lost our bearings. And when you look at divorce rates... they’ve got a point....

"We’ve become so tied up in the gay issue – the ordination of Gene Robinson – that I believe that we have to be big enough to hold both sides of the issue. If you put both together, you’d find a lot both agree with.

"If we listened to the sanctity of marriage and the problem of promiscuity, we’d find thye have something to say. And if we asked them if gay people should be treated equally, 99% would agree. There is something to having dialogue, in reaching out, in letting it be known that our church is a place for all types of people, who believe all kinds of things.

"I wasn’t sure if I wanted to come to another liberal agenda. But I was told I could talk about my thing, which is reconciliation.

Question: we do want to be reconcilers; but we don’t know how to do with people who won’t be a part of a church that accepts everyone.

A:  Either we are an exclusive or an inclusive church.  Make a choice.   

I had asked Bishop Pike to be the preacher for my ordination.  I picked him up and he just started talking.  And he kept talking. Finally, when I dropped him off, I told him "I haven’t agreed with a single word you said. "  And he said “splendid. Come on up and talk about it.” And we argued for a couple hours. And the next morning he preached a wonderful sermon on what it means to be a lawyer and a priest.

Q: I appreciated your comments. I was wondering if you could name 1, 2, 3 issues where you see what issues where we have ends in common even if we disagree in the means.

A Well, for example, we should have said we don’t excommunicate people. We should do a much better job saying that our communion is open. People can come to the alter with their faith and let God sort it out.

We should be the leaders in ecumenical and interfaith activities. It means us, not the general convention. If it takes a decade to get together with the elca, then we’re in sorry shape. We have to figure this out on a parish wide base.

Q. What can we do to reconcile ourselves within the Anglican communion.

A. There are going to people who disagree and take an exclusive church. We can simply say this is who we are, and hope that you’ll agree. But the historic position is to hold things together.

At this point, I put my laptop away.

I'll review the more about the conference late

Comments

[*Christopher]

If we listened to the sanctity of marriage and the problem of promiscuity, we’d find thye have something to say. And if we asked them if gay people should be treated equally, 99% would agree.

I appreciate reconciliation work as well, but reconciliation only happens if we can hold one another together in conflicts. I'm sorry, but 99% would not agree to treat us equally. If that were the case we'd already have equal rites and the sanctity of our relationships would be honored as ways to reduce promiscuity among gay folk.

[J. C. Fisher]

What *C said . . . and as far as "including both sides", I say to our opponents the same thing I say re Another Big Hairy Issue: if you don't like same-sex marriage, don't have one! ;-)

[Prior Aelred]

Salty -- Like you I was disappointed -- I do believe that Fr Danforth is not being honest (perhaps with himself) about the nature of the "conservative" opposition (remember that the "Network" is actually a fairly small percentage of the Episcopal Church -- perhaps a maximum of 15%) -- they do not want to have open communion -- they want to excommmunicate & exclude those who disagree with them (& do)